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Rebuttal of "Fact" 5

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on June 14, 2011 at 7:49:23 pm

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5. Dr Matthew Oldfield claimed he and his wife arrived at the Tapas bar at 8.55pm, but then went back to the Paynes’ apartment to chase them up as they were late. Dr Russell O’Brien confirmed that: “Matt, around 9pm, got up and said ‘I’ll go and drag them out’.” The Paynes flatly contradicted this.


Verdict - False.  The witness and rogatory statements of all concerned are consistent with each other.

Source - Police Files.





Summary of Verifiable Facts


  1. All parties concerned were in agreement that the Paynes were the last to arrive at the restaurant.
  2. All parties were in agreement that the Paynes arrived on or before 9pm.
  3. Dr O'Brien's statement supports Dr Oldfields claim that he went to chase up the Paynes.
  4. The Paynes and Dianne Webster are in agreement that they met Dr Oldfield on their way to the restaurant.
  5. They agreed that they exchanged a joke with Dr Oldfield about them always being late. 
  6. Dianne Webster did not recall meeting anyone in her first statement, but later revised her statement as she recalled meeting Dr Oldfield and having a brief joking discussion about them being late.   




Yet again, we have several independent statements wrapped up as a single "fact". It is therefore unclear exactly which part(s), the MMRG are claiming the Paynes "flatly contradicted".


  1. That the Oldfields arrived at the Tapas Bar at 20:55? 
  2. That the Oldfields then went back to the Paynes apartment to chase them up?
  3. That the Paynes were late?
  4. That Matt Oldfield got up at around 9pm and said "I'll go and drag them out"? (this part can be further broken down if required).



What did everyone say?


*Note that the earliest statements are not transcripts of interviews, but rather paraphrased accounts of what was said in response to police questions.  We do not know precisely what these questions were.

Dr Matthew Oldfield


Statement 1 - Matthew Oldfield interview on 04 May 2007


 The interviewee says that the day yesterday was identical to the previous ones and that, as on all other nights, at around 8.45pm, he and his wife left their daughter asleep in the apartment and went to the "Tapas" restaurant.  That the couple Kate and Gerry, Madeleine's parents were already at the restaurant. That they had arrived at the restaurant five minutes before them. The rest of the adults arrived at the restaurant around five minutes after the interviewee and his wife. That the last to arrive at the restaurant was the couple David and Fiona. That the latter arrived at the restaurant at around

21h00.  That around 21h05, the interviewee went to the area of the apartments.



Statement 2 - Matthew Oldfield 16h00, 10 May 2009

NB - The time of 19:45 is almost certainly an error of typing or transcription since it is at odds with all other accounts and statements.



The deponent said he stayed in his apartment until 19h45 at which time, together with his wife, he went to the Tapas restaurant where Gerald and Kate were already and, from what was said afterwards, Jane. Later, about 20h50, Russell arrived.  The deponent added that David, Fiona and Dianne were still not present – and as he could see their apartment lights burning – he resolved to go to them, clarifying that he did not reach that apartment as those people were already on their way to the restaurant. He clarifies [further] that he met them near the living quarters, at the corner next to the main door of the McCann apartment.
Benefiting from meeting them next to the residences, he adds that, on his own initiative, he made a "listening check" at the bedroom window of Madeleine McCann and the twins at 21h05.



Matthew Oldfield - Rogatory Interview - 9th April 2008


 "so I told Rach, you know, I'll have whatever it was, I think it was, erm, probably sardines because, you know, they were pretty good, erm, so I put my order in for her to order if the waiter came back and went to try and sort of chivvy them along. But as I was leaving the Tapas area, you know, and their light going off and knowing that they were coming down and on their way, and on my way up, about at that top corner before you turn left to get round the back, as you go up the top of the hill, we sort of passed on the way down and they were on their way to the restaurant, but it seemed a bit silly not to go ahead and just sort of check on G****, even though we'd only been down there about fifteen minutes",



Summary of Matthew Oldfield's Statements

  1. That he and his wife went to the Tapas Bar at approximately 20:45 (the second statement gives the time as 19:45 but this is almost certainly a typing or transcription error as it does not tie in with the other times).
  2. That the Payne's were last to arrive.
  3. That he decided to go and chase up the Payne's, but met them on the way.
  4. That he used the opportunity to check on the children.



Dr Russell O'Brien


Statement 1 - Dr Russell O'Brien interview on 04 May 2007


His partner, Jane, went to have dinner at the "TAPAS" restaurant at around 20h30 and he went there at around 20h45. When he arrived at the restaurant, nearly all the adults were present, without children, with the exception of David, Fiona and Diane. They arrived more or less 5 minutes later.



Statement 2 - Dr Russell O'Brien 16h00, 10 May 2009


Meanwhile, his companion Jane went to dinner in the restaurant - the Tapas - around 20h35/20h40 with the deponent going around 20h45. As the menu was always the same, the group already knew what plates made up the menu, for this reason the deponent told his wife what he wanted, and that she place the order, while he tried to put E**e down.
• When he arrived at the restaurant, all the adults were there, without the children. David and Fiona were missing and Dianne Webster. They arrived more or less 10 minutes after.



Dr Russell O'Brien - Rogatory Interview 08 April 2008



And I can distinctly remember, from the position I was sitting, I was looking towards the apartment block and, erm, you, you could see the lights on in their, in their rooms, inside, and occasionally see people walking about.  So there were lots of jokes about the fact that they were still, still not there and probably if we didn’t get a move on they weren’t going to serve us.  So Matt, erm, around nine o’clock, give or take a few minutes, but around that sort of time, he got up and said ‘I’ll go and drag them out’ and I believe also had a listen outside of all of the rooms as well.  In any case, as he was walking back, he actually met them on the way down.



Summary of Russell O'Brien

  1. Russell O'Brien's statement corroborates those of Matthew Oldfield.
  2. That the Payne's were last to arrive around 9pm.
  3. And that Dr Matthew Oldfield decided to go and chase them up.
  4. He also states that he knew the Payne's were still in their apartment, as it was visible from their table in the restaurant and he could see them moving about inside.


Dr David Payne

Statement 1 - 4 MAY 07


Concerning yesterday evening, he states that he, his wife and his mother-in-law arrived at the restaurant at around 8.55pm.  According to what he remembers, when they arrived, all the members of the group were present, apart from the children, who were in bed.



Dr David Payne - Rogatory Interview 11 APRIL 2008


 1485 "The intercom and all the rest of it. I'm just gonna move on to when you actually got to the Tapas, you said that you passed Matt on the way down."
Reply "Mm."

1485 "Whereabouts did you pass him?"
Reply "Err..."

1485 "Can you mark, just..."
Reply "Yeah, the where's, this is the entrance here into the Tapas area."

1485 "Yeah."
Reply "My recollection was that we were just got, we were round there, I thought we'd actually entered into the Tapas bar to


1485 "Actually into the complex?"
Reply "Just, just into the complex, but certainly we hadn't made it yet to the swimming pool but it was just, just about


1485 "Okay."
Reply "Yeah."
00:46:42 1485 "And what time do you think that was?"
Reply "We were, we were just before nine, just before nine o' clock we yeah we went between quarter to and nine o' clock."


Summary of David Payne

  1. Dr David Payne corroborates that he and his wife and mother-in-law were last to arrive 
  2. just before or around 9pm 
  3. and that they met Dr Matthew Oldfield on the way.



Dr Fiona Payne




Afterwards, she returned to the apartment and got ready. She left around 20H45, accompanied by David and her mother, in order to meet the rest of the group in the Tapas restaurant.



Confirms her previous statement but appears only to have been asked about Robert Murat in this interview.


Fiona Payne - Rogatory Interview 10th April 2008


 1485    “Yeah.  So you got ready then between eight and ten to nine?”
Reply    “Yeah”.
1485    “And tell me about the time that you are ready to go, you leave out and then you arrive at the Tapas?”
Reply    “Erm, on the way down, we went down the normal way, as I say, out onto the main road and round the corner.  And just as we were approaching, erm, probably outside kind of the, Kate and Gerry’s gate, that sort of area, erm, we bumped into Matt who was heading back to chase us up, erm, and we had a joke, you know, we’re always late. He carried on up to check on Grace and we carried on down to the Tapas Bar and when we got there everyone else, bar Matt, was sat at the table.  Erm, again, (inaudible) to get on and order.  Erm, you know, there’s nothing else really”.



Summary of Dr Fiona Payne

  1. Dr Fiona Payne corroborates the time that they got to the restaurant.
  2. Just before 9pm which was later than the others.
  3. And that they bumped into Dr Matthew Oldfield on the way. 



Dianne Webster

Witness statement of Dianne Webster 2007.05.04


Concerning the day yesterday, she went to the beach with the children, her son-in-law and her daughter. They arrived there at around 3.45pm and left at around 6.15pm to go to the tennis courts where she stayed until 7pm. The informant then went to the apartment with the small children and ten minutes later, her son-in-law, David, joined them. With her son-in-law's help, they bathed the children.  They left the apartment at around 8.45 and accompanied by her son-in-law and her daughter, they went to join the rest of the group at the "TAPAS" restaurant.




In this second statement she does not recall meeting anyone en-route to the restaurant.  She later changed her statement on this point (see below).



Prompted to report the events that had unfolded in period between 19H00 and 22H40 of that day, the deponent states that around 19:00 she had gone together with the Payne couple and their children to the apartment in order to prepare them for bed. Then, as usual, the adults prepared themselves for dinner. In this matter, she recalled that they had been late with these preparations because they only managed to get to Restaurant around 21.00.  Asked, she adds that she went to the restaurant in the company of her daughter and son-in-law.
- Asked directly if someone had gone to her apartment to call them (herself and the PAYNE couple) for dinner the witness said no.
- Asked if there was the possibility of having crossed paths with someone during the journey between her apartment and restaurant, the witness said no.
- That night she judges to have arrived at the restaurant close to 21:00, in the company of the PAYNE couple.
- That, at that time, the whole group was at the restaurant. The witness did not recall, but thinks that perhaps Gerald and MATT had not been in the restaurant along with the other members of the group.
- In this regard, asked specifically whether, on the journey to the restaurant, if they had passed either of the two individuals described in the preceding paragraph, she answered categorically not.




 PC: "And getting ready for the, going for a meal."
DW: "Well we were very late that night."
PC: "And Fiona had gone for a run."
DW: "Yeah."

PC: "And then the, you arrived a little late. What can you remember of the evening then?"
DW: "Well we arrived about, I don't know, ten to nine, five to nine, which was very late. And the thing that I didn't mention at the original interview in Portugal was that I do vaguely remember seeing Matt, he was coming up because I think he made some joke about coming up to see where we were because we were so late, but he was actually on his way to check the children."

PC: "Right."
DW: "So I do, I do remember that although I didn't remember it clearly at the time so we got down to the table I think we ordered our starters."
PC: "Do you remember who was there when you got there?"

DW: "Well Matt obviously wasn't because we we'd just passed him but of course I don't remember this at the time, and I think in my original statement I thought maybe Gerry wasn't there, but maybe he was, I don't know."
PC: "You can't be sure?"

DW: "I can't be sure because it's not something that I think I need to remember, at the time, its not something you need to remember."
PC: "No, and it was no different from any of the other nights."




Summary of Dianne Webster

  1. Mrs Webster corroborates the time they went to the restaurant.
  2. The fact that they were last to arrive.
  3. And that they bumped into Dr Matthew Oldfield on the way.   


Although she did not recall this in her earliest statements, she did recall that Dr Oldfield was not in the restaurant when she arrived and she made a point to clarify her recollection at her rogatory interview.





Other than Dianne Websters initial failure to recall bumping into Dr Matthew Oldfield en-route to the restaurant, all statements are consistent.  Dianne Webster later corrected her statement.

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